📜 Guittin — 14b

Talmud de Babylone · Traité Guittin · Chapitre 1 · Page 14b

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▶ 📖 Mishna
▶ 💬 Guemara Rabbi Aḥai said to Rabbi Dostai bar Rabbi Yannai and to Rabbi Yosei bar Keifar: When you come from Neharde’a bring the v…
Rabbi Aḥai said to Rabbi Dostai bar Rabbi Yannai and to Rabbi Yosei bar Keifar: When you come from Neharde’a bring the vessel to me. They went to Neharde’a and the people who were in possession of the vessel gave it to them. After handing over the vessel, those people said to them: Let us perform an act of acquisition with you, so that you will be responsible for the vessel until you reach Rabbi Aḥai. The agents said to them: No; we do not want to do this. They said to them: If so, return the vessel to us, as we do not wish to transfer it in such a manner that we retain responsibility. Rabbi Dostai, son of Rabbi Yannai, said to them: Yes, I am willing to return it. However, Rabbi Yosei bar Keifar said to them: No, as you do not have the right to retract in this situation. They tormented Rabbi Yosei bar Keifar to force him to agree to return the vessel. Rabbi Yosei bar Keifar said to Rabbi Dostai: See, my Master, what they are doing to me. Rabbi Dostai said to them: You are acting well; hit him. When these two agents came before Rabbi Aḥai, Rabbi Yosei bar Keifar said to him: See, my Master, not only did Rabbi Dostai not support me; rather, he even said to them: You are acting well; hit him. Rabbi Aḥai said to Rabbi Dostai: Why did you do this? Rabbi Dostai said to him: Those people who were in possession of the vessel, they are the size of a cubit, and their hats were a cubit, and they spoke from their midpoints, and their names were frightening: Arda and Arta and Pili Bereish. If one were to say to them: Restrain this person, they would restrain him. If one were to say to them: Kill him, they would kill. Had they killed Dostai, i.e., me, who would give Yannai, my father, another son like me? Rabbi Aḥai said to him: Are these people close to the government? Rabbi Dostai said to him: Yes. Rabbi Aḥai asked him: Do they have horses and mules that run after them, i.e., do they have servants to perform their bidding? Rabbi Dostai said to them: Yes. Rabbi Aḥai said to him: If so, you acted well, as the situation was entirely out of your control. § The Gemara discusses the meaning of the expression: Deliver, in relation to a gift. With regard to one who said to his agent: Deliver one hundred dinars to so-and-so, and the agent went and searched for that person but did not find him, as he had died, it is taught in one baraita: The money should be returned to the sender. And it is taught in another baraita: The money should be given to the heirs of the one to whom it was sent. The Gemara suggests: Let us say that they disagree about this, as one Sage, in the second baraita, holds that in the case of a gift, saying: Deliver, is like saying: Acquire, and consequently the agent took possession of the money on behalf of the one to whom it was sent. Therefore, the heirs inherit this item. And one Sage, in the first baraita, holds that in the case of a gift, saying: Deliver, is not like saying: Acquire, and therefore the agent must return the money to the sender. Rabbi Abba bar Memel said: No; everyone agrees that in the case of a gift, saying: Deliver, is not like saying: Acquire, and the apparent contradiction between the two baraitot is not difficult: This baraita, which says that the agent must return the money to the sender, is dealing with a case where the giver was a healthy person when he issued the instructions. Such a gift is acquired by the recipient only once it reaches his possession, and this recipient died before the gift reached him. Conversely, that baraita, which says that he should give it to the heirs of the one to whom it was sent, deals with the instructions of a person on his deathbed. Since the gift of a dying person is immediately acquired by the recipient, this recipient acquired it straightaway, and therefore it must be given to his heirs. Rav Zevid said: It is possible to say that saying: Deliver, is not like saying: Acquire, and that both this baraita and that baraita are dealing with a case where the giver was a person on his deathbed. Instead, the difference between the two sources is that this baraita, which states that he should give it to the recipient’s heirs, is referring to a case where the recipient was alive at the time of the giving of the money. Consequently, when the sender gives the money to the agent the recipient immediately acquires it, and his heirs claim it in his stead. That baraita, which says that the agent must return the money to the sender, is referring to a case where the recipient was not alive at the time of the giving of the money, and consequently the agent could not acquire the money on his behalf. Rav Pappa said yet another explanation of the baraita: This baraita and that baraita are both dealing with a healthy person who subsequently died. The difference is that this baraita, which said that the agent must return the money to the sender, is dealing with a case where the recipient died in the lifetime of the giver, and as he did not acquire the money himself his heirs do not take possession of it either. By contrast, that baraita, which states that the money should be given to the heirs of the recipient, is dealing with a case where the giver died in the lifetime of the recipient. Once he dies it is a mitzva to fulfill his wishes, and therefore the recipient, and his heirs after him, are entitled to the money. The Gemara further suggests: Shall we say that the issue of whether saying: Deliver, is like saying: Acquire, is a dispute between tanna’im? This is as it is taught in a baraita, that if one person said to another: Deliver one hundred dinars to so-and-so, and he went and searched for him but did not find him, as he had died, the money should be returned to the sender. If the sender died, Rabbi Natan and Rabbi Ya’akov said: The money should be returned to the heirs of the sender. And some say: It should be given to the heirs of the one to whom it was sent. The baraita continues: Rabbi Yehuda HaNasi said in the name of Rabbi Ya’akov, who said this in the name of Rabbi Meir: It is a mitzva to fulfill the statement of the dead. Therefore the money should be given to the heirs of the one to whom it was sent. And the Rabbis say: Due to the uncertainty, they should divide it. And here, in Babylonia, they said: Whatever the agent wishes to do he may do. Rabbi Shimon HaNasi said: When an incident of this kind occurred under my jurisdiction I inquired into how to proceed, and the Sages said to me: The money should be returned to the heirs of the sender. The Gemara suggests: What, is it not correct to say that they disagree about this issue, that the first tanna holds that saying: Deliver, is not like saying: Acquire, and therefore the money should be returned to the sender? And Rabbi Natan and Rabbi Ya’akov also hold that saying: Deliver, is not like saying: Acquire, but they add that even though the sender died, one does not say: It is a mitzva to fulfill the statement of the dead. Consequently, the money is returned to the sender’s heirs. And the Sages in the clause beginning: Some say, claim that saying: Deliver, is like saying: Acquire. Therefore the recipient takes possession of the money immediately, and it is given to his heirs. And Rabbi Yehuda HaNasi, who said in the name of Rabbi Ya’akov, who said this in the name of Rabbi Meir, also holds that saying: Deliver, is not like saying: Acquire. However, in a case where the sender died we say that it is a mitzva to fulfill the statement of the dead. Therefore, the one hundred dinars should be given to the recipient or his heirs. And the Rabbis say: They should divide it, because they are uncertain about the halakha in this situation. And the Sages in the clause beginning: Here they said, maintain that in this case the discretion [shuda] of the agent is preferable to an even division between the parties. And Rabbi Shimon HaNasi does not offer an opinion of his own; rather, he came to teach us an incident in which this case was decided in practice. The Gemara rejects this suggestion: No; it is possible that in a case where the giver was a healthy person when he appointed the agent everyone agrees that saying: Deliver, is not like saying: Acquire, and with what are we dealing here? We are dealing with a person on his deathbed who sent these one hundred dinars, and they disagree in the dispute between Rabbi Elazar and the Rabbis. This is as we learned in a mishna (Bava Batra 156a): With regard to one who divides his property orally, Rabbi Elazar says: Both in the case of a healthy person and that of a dangerously ill person, property that serves as a guarantee, i.e., land, is acquired by means of money, through a document, or by taking possession. And property that does not serve as a guarantee, i.e., movable property, can be acquired only through pulling. And the Rabbis say: If the giver is on his deathbed, then both this property and that property can be acquired through speech, and there is no need for an additional act of acquisition. They said to Rabbi Elazar: Didn’t an incident of this kind occur with regard to the mother of the family of the sons of Rokhel, who was ill, and she said: Give
▶ 🇫🇷 Résumé en français Rabbi Aḥai dit à Rabbi Dostai bar Rabbi Yannai et à Rabbi Yosei bar Keifar : Quand vous viendrez de Neharde’a, apportez-…
Rabbi Aḥai dit à Rabbi Dostai bar Rabbi Yannai et à Rabbi Yosei bar Keifar : Quand vous viendrez de Neharde’a, apportez-moi le récipient. Ils allèrent à Neharde’a, et les gens qui étaient en possession du récipient le leur donnèrent. Après avoir remis le récipient, ces gens leur dirent : Faisons avec vous un acte d’acquisition, afin que vous soyez responsables du récipient jusqu’à ce que vous arriviez chez Rabbi Aḥai. Les agents leur dirent : Non ; nous ne voulons pas faire cela. Ils leur dirent : Si tel est le cas, rendez-nous le récipient, car nous ne souhaitons pas le transférer d’une manière qui nous laisse la responsabilité. Rabbi Dostai, fils de Rabbi Yannai, leur dit : Oui, je suis prêt à le rendre. Cependant, Rabbi Yosei bar Keifar leur dit : Non, car vous n’avez pas le droit de vous rétracter dans cette situation. Ils tourmentèrent Rabbi Yosei bar Keifar pour le forcer à accepter de rendre le récipient. Rabbi Yosei bar Keifar dit à Rabbi Dostai : Vois, mon Maître, ce qu’ils me font. Rabbi Dostai leur dit : Vous agissez bien ; frappez-le. Quand ces deux agents vinrent devant Rabbi Aḥai, Rabbi Yosei bar Keifar lui dit : Vois, mon Maître, non seulement Rabbi Dostai ne m’a pas soutenu ; mais il leur a même dit : Vous agissez bien ; frappez-le. Rabbi Aḥai dit à Rabbi Dostai : Pourquoi as-tu fait cela ? Rabbi Dostai lui dit : Ces gens qui étaient en possession du récipient, ils sont de la taille d’une coudée, et leurs chapeaux étaient d’une coudée, et ils parlaient depuis leur milieu, et leurs noms étaient effrayants : Arda et Arta et Pili Bereish. Si l’on leur disait : Retenez cette personne, ils la retenaient. Si l’on leur disait : Tuez-le, ils le tuaient. S’ils avaient tué Dostai, c’est-à-dire moi, qui aurait donné à Yannai, mon père, un autre fils comme moi ? Rabbi Aḥai lui dit : Ces gens sont-ils proches du gouvernement ? Rabbi Dostai lui dit : Oui. Rabbi Aḥai lui demanda : Ont-ils des chevaux et des mules qui courent après eux, c’est-à-dire ont-ils des serviteurs pour exécuter leurs ordres ? Rabbi Dostai leur dit : Oui. Rabbi Aḥai lui dit : Si tel est le cas, tu as bien agi, car la situation était entièrement hors de ton contrôle. § La Guemara discute du sens de l’expression : Livrer, en rapport avec un don. Concernant celui qui dit à son agent : Livrez cent deniers à untel, et l’agent alla chercher cette personne mais ne la trouva pas, car elle était morte, il est enseigné dans une baraita : L’argent doit être rendu à l’envoyeur. Et il est enseigné dans une autre baraita : L’argent doit être donné aux héritiers de celui à qui il a été envoyé. La Guemara suggère : Disons qu’ils sont en désaccord à ce sujet, car un Sage, dans la deuxième baraita, tient que dans le cas d’un don, dire : Livrer, est comme dire : Acquérir, et par conséquent l’agent a pris possession de l’argent au nom de celui à qui il a été envoyé. Par conséquent, les héritiers héritent de cet objet. Et un Sage, dans la première baraita, tient que dans le cas d’un don, dire : Livrer, n’est pas comme dire : Acquérir, et donc l’agent doit rendre l’argent à l’envoyeur. Rabbi Abba bar Memel dit : Non ; tout le monde est d’accord que dans le cas d’un don, dire : Livrer, n’est pas comme dire : Acquérir, et la contradiction apparente entre les deux baraitot n’est pas difficile : Cette baraita, qui dit que l’agent doit rendre l’argent à l’envoyeur, traite d’un cas où le donateur était une personne saine lorsqu’il a donné ses instructions. Un tel don n’est acquis par le bénéficiaire qu’une fois qu’il arrive en sa possession, et ce bénéficiaire est mort avant que le don ne lui parvienne. Inversement, cette baraita, qui dit qu’il doit le donner aux héritiers de celui à qui il a été envoyé, traite des instructions d’une personne sur son lit de mort. Puisque le don d’un mourant est immédiatement acquis par le bénéficiaire, celui-ci l’a acquis sur-le-champ, et donc il doit être donné à ses héritiers. Rav Zevid dit : Il est possible de dire que dire : Livrer, n’est pas comme dire : Acquérir, et que cette baraita et celle-là traitent d’un cas où le donateur était une personne sur son lit de mort. Au lieu de cela, la différence entre les deux sources est que cette baraita, qui stipule qu’il doit le donner aux héritiers du bénéficiaire, se réfère à un cas où le bénéficiaire était vivant au moment de la remise de l’argent. Par conséquent, lorsque le donateur donne l’argent à l’agent, le bénéficiaire l’acquiert immédiatement, et ses héritiers le réclament à sa place. Cette baraita, qui dit que l’agent doit rendre l’argent à l’envoyeur, se réfère à un cas où le bénéficiaire n’était pas vivant au moment de la remise de l’argent, et par conséquent l’agent ne pouvait pas acquérir l’argent en son nom. Rav Pappa dit encore une autre explication de la baraita : Cette baraita et celle-là traitent toutes deux d’une personne saine qui est ensuite morte. La différence est que cette baraita, qui dit que l’agent doit rendre l’argent à l’envoyeur, traite d’un cas où le bénéficiaire est mort du vivant du donateur, et comme il n’a pas acquis l’argent lui-même, ses héritiers n’en prennent pas non plus possession. En revanche, cette baraita, qui stipule que l’argent doit être donné aux héritiers du bénéficiaire, traite d’un cas où le donateur est mort du vivant du bénéficiaire. Une fois qu’il meurt, c’est un [...]
La Guemara discerne avec humanité qu’une promesse peut être suspendue lorsque la contrainte rend son exécution impossible, faisant écho à la miséricorde demandée en Osée 6:6. Jésus accomplit cette sagesse en distinguant la fidélité à Dieu de l’asservissement à la lettre, selon Matthieu 12:7.

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