Ketoubot 13a — Talmud de Babylone

▶ 💬 Guemara The Gemara asks: What are their respective financial claims? Rabbi Yoḥanan said: The bride claims that since her hymen w…

The Gemara asks: What are their respective financial claims? Rabbi Yoḥanan said: The bride claims that since her hymen was ruptured by wood, her legal status is that of a virgin and she is entitled to a marriage contract of two hundred dinars; and the groom claims that she engaged in intercourse and is entitled to a marriage contract of one hundred dinars. Rabbi Elazar said: The bride claims that although her hymen is not intact she did not completely deceive him, as she never engaged in intercourse, and therefore she is entitled to a marriage contract of one hundred dinars; and the groom claims that she engaged in intercourse, rendering the betrothal a mistaken transaction, and therefore she is entitled to nothing at all. The Gemara elaborates. Rabbi Yoḥanan said: The dispute between the bride and groom is whether the marriage contract is two hundred dinars or one hundred dinars, because the tanna of the mishna holds in accordance with the opinion of Rabbi Meir, who said: Whether the husband was aware that her hymen was ruptured by wood or whether he was not aware of her condition, she receives payment of her marriage contract of two hundred dinars and it is not a mistaken transaction. And Rabbi Elazar says: The dispute between the bride and groom is whether the marriage contract is one hundred dinars or whether she is entitled to nothing at all, because the tanna of the mishna holds in accordance with the opinion of the Rabbis, who said: Whether the husband was aware that her hymen was ruptured by wood or whether he was not aware of her condition, she receives payment of her marriage contract of one hundred dinars. The Gemara asks: Granted, Rabbi Elazar did not state his explanation of the mishna in accordance with the explanation of Rabbi Yoḥanan because he preferred to establish the mishna in accordance with the opinion of the Rabbis, according to which the halakha is ruled, and not the opinion of Rabbi Meir. However, what is the reason that Rabbi Yoḥanan did not state his explanation of the mishna in accordance with the explanation of Rabbi Elazar? The Gemara answers: The reason that Rabbi Yoḥanan explained the mishna in that manner is that he holds: If the groom married a woman with the presumptive status of a virgin, and she is found to be a non-virgin, she receives payment of her marriage contract of one hundred dinars. Therefore, here, according to the explanation of Rabbi Elazar, who explains the mishna according to the opinion of the Rabbis, he is saying that she engaged in intercourse and is entitled to a marriage contract of one hundred dinars; and she is saying that her hymen was ruptured by wood and she is entitled to a marriage contract of one hundred dinars. What difference is there between his claim and her claim? Therefore, Rabbi Yoḥanan explains the mishna in accordance with the opinion of Rabbi Meir, who holds that the dispute between the bride and the groom is whether she is entitled to a marriage contract of two hundred dinars or a marriage contract of one hundred dinars. Again we question: Granted, according to Rabbi Elazar, who explains that the dispute between the bride and the groom is with regard to whether she is entitled to a marriage contract of one hundred dinars because her hymen was ruptured by wood, or whether she is entitled to nothing because she engaged in intercourse, that is why the tanna teaches two similar disputes, in this mishna and in the previous one. One dispute, in this mishna, comes to exclude the opinion of Rami bar Ḥama, who said: If he was not aware that her hymen was ruptured by wood, everyone agrees that she receives no marriage contract at all, as the marriage was a mistaken transaction. From this mishna it is clear that according to her claim that her hymen was ruptured by wood, she is entitled to one hundred dinars. And one dispute, in the previous mishna, is brought in order to exclude that which Rav Ḥiyya bar Avin said that Rav Sheshet said: If the groom married a woman with the presumptive status of a virgin and she is found to be a non-virgin, she receives payment of her marriage contract of one hundred dinars. In the previous mishna he claims: Before I betrothed you, you were raped and my transaction was a mistaken transaction, indicating that she is entitled to nothing. However, according to Rabbi Yoḥanan, why do I need the tanna to teach two similar disputes? In his opinion, the previous mishna could not have been taught to exclude that which Rav Ḥiyya bar Avin said that Rav Sheshet said. It has already been established that Rabbi Yoḥanan agrees with the opinion that if she is found to be a non-virgin, she receives payment of her marriage contract of one hundred dinars. The Gemara answers: The two similar disputes were necessary. One is to convey to you the far-reaching nature of the opinion of Rabban Gamliel and the extent of the credibility that he accords to her claim; and one is to convey to you the far-reaching nature of the opinion of Rabbi Yehoshua and the extent to which he does not accord credibility to her claim. The Gemara elaborates: The first mishna, where she admits she was raped but claims that it was after betrothal, conveys to you the far-reaching nature of the opinion of Rabbi Yehoshua: That even though there is room to say that her claim is bolstered by a miggo, she is not deemed credible. The second mishna, where she claims that her hymen was ruptured by wood and he claims that she engaged in intercourse, conveys to you the far-reaching nature of the opinion of Rabban Gamliel: That even though there is no room to say that her claim is bolstered by a miggo, in his opinion she is deemed credible. MISHNA: If people saw a woman speaking to one man, but they did not recognize him, and they said to her: What is the nature [tivo] of this man? And she said to them: He is a man called so-and-so and he is a priest; Rabban Gamliel and Rabbi Eliezer say: She is deemed credible, and Rabbi Yehoshua says: It is not based on the statement emerging from her mouth that we conduct our lives. Rather, she assumes the presumptive status of one who engaged in intercourse with a Gibeonite or with a mamzer, men of flawed lineage who disqualify her from marrying a priest, until she brings proof supporting her statement. Similarly, if a single woman was pregnant, and people said to her: What is the nature of this fetus? And she says to them: It is from a man called so-and-so and he is a priest; Rabban Gamliel and Rabbi Eliezer say: She is deemed credible, and Rabbi Yehoshua says: It is not based on the statement emerging from her mouth that we conduct our lives. Rather, she assumes the presumptive status of one who conceived from a Gibeonite or a mamzer, until she brings proof supporting her statement. GEMARA: The Gemara asks: What is the meaning of speaking mentioned in the mishna? Ze’eiri said: It means that she secluded herself with a man and it is unknown whether she engaged in intercourse. Rav Asi said: It means that she engaged in intercourse. Granted, according to Ze’eiri, that is why the mishna teaches the case employing the term speaking, as it is certain only that they were in seclusion. Perhaps all they did was speak. However, according to Rav Asi, what is the reason the mishna employed the term speaking if the reference is to intercourse? The Gemara answers: The mishna employed a euphemism, as it is written with regard to licentious women: “She eats and wipes her mouth and says: I have done no wickedness” (Proverbs 30:20). The verse euphemistically ascribes the act of intercourse to the mouth instead of to the appropriate body part. The Gemara asks: Granted, according to Ze’eiri, who said that speaking means that she secluded herself with him, that is the reason that the tanna teaches two cases in the mishna: A woman speaking to a man and a woman who is pregnant. However, according to Rav Asi, if speaking means that she engaged in intercourse, why do I need two cases addressing the same issue? The Gemara answers: The tanna teaches one case, the case of speaking to a man, to deem her fit to marry a priest, because although she engaged in intercourse, Rabbi Eliezer and Rabban Gamliel rule that she is deemed credible and is not considered to have engaged in intercourse with a man of flawed lineage. And the tanna teaches one case, the case of the single woman who is pregnant, in order to deem her daughter born from that pregnancy fit to marry a priest, as Rabbi Eliezer and Rabban Gamliel rule the mother is deemed credible. The Gemara asks: This works out well according to the one who says: With regard to the statement of the one who deems her fit to marry a priest, he deems her daughter fit to do so as well. However, according to the one who says: With regard to the statement of the one who deems her fit to marry a priest, he nevertheless deems her daughter unfit, what is there to say? Why did the mishna cite two cases addressing the same issue? The Gemara answers: Rav Asi holds in accordance with the opinion of the one who said: With regard to the statement of the one who deems her fit to marry a priest, he deems her daughter fit to do so as well. Rav Pappa said to Abaye: According to Ze’eiri, who said: What is the meaning of the term speaking? It means that she secluded herself, and Rabbi Yehoshua said that she is not deemed credible to say that she engaged in intercourse with a man of proper lineage, but the assumption is that she engaged in intercourse with a man of flawed lineage. Didn’t Rav say: One flogs a man and a woman for entering into seclusion, for violating rabbinic law, but one does not render a woman forbidden to her husband for entering into seclusion? Only if it is established as a certainty that she engaged in intercourse with a man other than her husband, is she forbidden to her husband. Let us say that this statement of Rav is not in accordance with the opinion of Rabbi Yehoshua, as Rabbi Yehoshua rules that she assumes the presumptive status of one who engaged in intercourse with a Gibeonite or with a mamzer, and she is forbidden to marry a priest even for entering into seclusion. The Gemara rejects that conclusion. Even if you say that Rav’s statement is in accordance with the opinion of Rabbi Yehoshua, the Sages established a higher standard with regard to matters of lineage. Although she is not forbidden to her husband for entering into seclusion, she is deemed unfit to marry a priest. The Gemara raises an objection: If people saw that a woman entered with one man into seclusion,

▶ 🇫🇷 Résumé en français La Guemara demande : Quelles sont leurs réclamations financières respectives ? Rabbi Yoḥanan dit : La mariée prétend que…

La Guemara demande : Quelles sont leurs réclamations financières respectives ? Rabbi Yoḥanan dit : La mariée prétend que puisque son hymen a été déchiré par du bois, son statut juridique est celui d’une vierge et elle a droit à un contrat de mariage de deux cents deniers ; et le marié prétend qu’elle a eu des rapports sexuels et qu’elle a droit à un contrat de mariage de cent deniers. Rabbi Elazar dit : La mariée prétend que bien que son hymen ne soit pas intact, elle ne l’a pas complètement trompé, car elle n’a jamais eu de rapports sexuels, et elle a donc droit à un contrat de mariage de cent deniers ; et le marié prétend qu’elle a eu des rapports sexuels, ce qui rend les fiançailles une transaction erronée, et elle n’a donc droit à rien du tout. La Guemara développe. Rabbi Yoḥanan dit : Le litige entre la mariée et le marié est de savoir si le contrat de mariage est de deux cents deniers ou de cent deniers, car le tanna de la mishna tient conformément à l’avis de Rabbi Meir, qui dit : Que le mari ait su que son hymen avait été déchiré par du bois ou qu’il n’ait pas eu connaissance de sa condition, elle reçoit le paiement de son contrat de mariage de deux cents deniers et ce n’est pas une transaction erronée. Et Rabbi Elazar dit : Le litige entre la mariée et le marié est de savoir si le contrat de mariage est de cent deniers ou si elle a droit à rien du tout, car le tanna de la mishna tient conformément à l’avis des Rabbins, qui disent : Que le mari ait su que son hymen avait été déchiré par du bois ou qu’il n’ait pas eu connaissance de sa condition, elle reçoit le paiement de son contrat de mariage de cent deniers. La Guemara demande : Accordé, Rabbi Elazar n’a pas énoncé son explication de la mishna conformément à l’explication de Rabbi Yoḥanan parce qu’il préférait établir la mishna conformément à l’avis des Rabbins, selon lequel la halakha est tranchée, et non l’avis de Rabbi Meir. Cependant, quelle est la raison pour laquelle Rabbi Yoḥanan n’a pas énoncé son explication de la mishna conformément à l’explication de Rabbi Elazar ? La Guemara répond : La raison pour laquelle Rabbi Yoḥanan a expliqué la mishna de cette manière est que il tient : Si le marié a épousé une femme avec le statut présomptif de vierge, et qu’elle s’avère non vierge, elle reçoit le paiement de son contrat de mariage de cent deniers. Par conséquent, ici, selon l’explication de Rabbi Elazar, qui explique la mishna selon l’avis des Rabbins, il dit qu’elle a eu des rapports sexuels et qu’elle a droit à un contrat de mariage de cent deniers ; et elle dit que son hymen a été déchiré par du bois et qu’elle a droit à un contrat de mariage de cent deniers. Quelle différence y a-t-il entre sa réclamation et sa réclamation ? Par conséquent, Rabbi Yoḥanan explique la mishna conformément à l’avis de Rabbi Meir, qui tient que le litige entre la mariée et le marié est de savoir si elle a droit à un contrat de mariage de deux cents deniers ou à un contrat de mariage de cent deniers. Nous questionnons à nouveau : Accordé, selon Rabbi Elazar, qui explique que le litige entre la mariée et le marié concerne le fait de savoir si elle a droit à un contrat de mariage de cent deniers parce que son hymen a été déchiré par du bois, ou si elle a droit à rien parce qu’elle a eu des rapports sexuels, c’est pourquoi le tanna enseigne deux litiges similaires, dans cette mishna et dans la précédente. Un litige, dans cette mishna, vient pour exclure l’avis de Rami bar Ḥama, qui a dit : S’il n’avait pas connaissance que son hymen avait été déchiré par du bois, tout le monde est d’accord qu’elle ne reçoit aucun contrat de mariage, car le mariage était une transaction erronée. De cette mishna, il est clair que selon sa réclamation que son hymen a été déchiré par du bois, elle a droit à cent deniers. Et un litige, dans la mishna précédente, est apporté afin d’exclure ce que Rav Ḥiyya bar Avin a dit que Rav Sheshet a dit : Si le marié a épousé une femme avec le statut présomptif de vierge et qu’elle s’avère non vierge, elle reçoit le paiement de son contrat de mariage de cent deniers. Dans la mishna précédente, il prétend : Avant que je te fiance, tu as été violée et ma transaction était une transaction erronée, indiquant qu’elle n’a droit à rien. Cependant, selon Rabbi Yoḥanan, pourquoi ai-je besoin que le tanna enseigne deux litiges similaires ? Selon son avis, la mishna précédente n’aurait pas pu être enseignée pour exclure ce que Rav Ḥiyya bar Avin a dit que Rav Sheshet a dit. Il a déjà été établi que Rabbi Yoḥanan est d’accord avec l’avis que si elle s’avère non vierge, elle reçoit le paiement de son contrat de mariage de cent deniers. La Guemara répond : Les deux litiges similaires étaient nécessaires. Un est pour vous transmettre l’ampleur de l’avis de Rabban Gamliel et l’étendue de la crédibilité qu’il accorde à sa réclamation ; et un est pour vous transmettre l’ampleur de l’avis de Rabbi Yehoshua et l’étendue à laquelle il n’accorde pas de crédibilité à sa réclamation. La Guemara développe : La première mishna, où elle admet avoir été violée mais prétend que c’était après les fiançailles, vous transmet l’ampleur de l’avis de Rabbi Yehoshua : Que même s’il y a lieu de dire que sa réclamation est renforcée par un miggo, elle n’est pas jugée crédible. La seconde mishna, où elle prétend que son hymen a été déchiré par du bois et qu’il prétend qu’elle a eu des rapports sexuels, vous transmet l’ampleur de l’avis de Rabban Gamliel : Que même s’il n’y a pas de miggo pour soutenir sa réclamation, elle est jugée crédible. Et selon Rabbi Elazar, qui explique que le litige est de savoir si elle a droit à cent deniers ou à rien, pourquoi ai-je besoin que le tanna enseigne deux litiges similaires ? Un litige, dans la mishna précédente, vient pour exclure l’avis de Rami bar Ḥama, et un litige, dans cette mishna, vient pour exclure ce que Rav Ḥiyya bar Avin a dit que Rav Sheshet a dit.

📜 Ketoubot — 13a

📋 Références bibliques — Ketoubot 13a

✜️ Votre éternité se joue maintenant