Kiddushin 32b — Talmud de Babylone

▶ 💬 Guemara By contrast, here, is it his Torah, that the teacher can forgo its honor? Rava then said: Yes, if he studies, it is his …

By contrast, here, is it his Torah, that the teacher can forgo its honor? Rava then said: Yes, if he studies, it is his Torah, as it is written: “For his delight is the Torah of the Lord, and in his Torah he meditates day and night” (Psalms 1:2). This indicates that at first it is “the Torah of the Lord,” but after he studies, it becomes “his Torah.” The Gemara asks: Is that so? But Rava served drinks to the guests at his son’s wedding celebration, and he poured a cup for Rav Pappa and Rav Huna, son of Rav Yehoshua, and they stood before him when he approached them. When he poured a cup for Rav Mari and for Rav Pineḥas, son of Rav Ḥisda, they did not stand before him. Rava became angry and said: Are these Sages, i.e., Rav Mari and Rav Pineḥas, Sages, and are those Sages, who stood to honor me, not Sages? Do you think you are so great that you are not required to honor a Sage? And furthermore, it happened that Rav Pappa was serving drinks to the guests at the wedding celebration [hillula] of Abba Mar, his son, and he poured a cup for Rav Yitzḥak, son of Rav Yehuda, and he did not stand before him, and Rav Pappa became angry. These anecdotes indicate that even when a rabbi forgoes the honor due to him by serving drinks to his guests, his honor is not forgone. The Gemara answers: A rabbi can forgo the full measure of honor due to him, but even so, others are required to perform some act of reverence, such as preparing to stand before him. Rav Ashi said: Even according to the one who says that if a rabbi forgoes the honor due him, his honor is forgone, if a Nasi forgoes the honor due him, his honor is not forgone. The Gemara raises an objection: There was an incident involving Rabbi Eliezer and Rabbi Yehoshua and Rabbi Tzadok, who were reclining at the wedding of Rabban Gamliel’s son. And Rabban Gamliel, who was Nasi of the Sanhedrin at the time, was standing over them and serving them drinks. He gave the cup to Rabbi Eliezer and he would not accept it; he gave it to Rabbi Yehoshua and he accepted it. Rabbi Eliezer said to him: What is this, Yehoshua? We sit and the esteemed Rabban Gamliel stands over us and serves us drinks? Rabbi Yehoshua said to him: We found one greater than him who served his guests, as our forefather Abraham was greater than him and he served his guests. Abraham was the greatest man of his generation and it is written about him: “And he stood over them under the tree, and they ate” (Genesis 18:8). And lest you say: His guests appeared to him as ministering angels, and that is why he honored them, in fact they appeared to him only as Arabs. And if so, should not the esteemed Rabban Gamliel stand over us and serve us drinks? Rabbi Tzadok said to them: For how long will you ignore the honor due to the Omnipresent, and deal with the honor of people? You could cite a proof from God Himself. After all, the Holy One, Blessed be He, makes the winds blow, and raises the clouds, and brings the rain, and causes the earth to sprout, and sets a table before each and every creature. And should not the esteemed Rabban Gamliel stand over us and serve us drinks? This discussion indicates that even a Nasi may forgo the honor due him. Rather, if it was stated, it was stated as follows: Rav Ashi said: Even according to the one who says that if a Nasi forgoes the honor due him, his honor is forgone, if a king forgoes the honor due him, his honor is not forgone. As it is stated: “You shall set a king over you” (Deuteronomy 17:15), which indicates that his fear should be upon you. The people are commanded to fear a king, and therefore it is not permitted for him to forgo the honor due to him. § The Sages taught with regard to the verse: “Before the hoary head you shall stand and you shall revere the face of an elder, and you shall fear your God” (Leviticus 19:32): One might have thought that it is obligatory to stand before a simple [ashmai] elder. Therefore, the verse states: “elder,” and an “elder” means nothing other than a wise man, as it is stated: “Gather unto Me seventy men of the Elders of Israel, whom you know to be the Elders of the people” (Numbers 11:16). Rabbi Yosei HaGelili says: An “elder [zaken]” means nothing other than one who has acquired wisdom. He interprets the word zaken as a contraction of the phrase zeh kanna, meaning: This one has acquired. Elsewhere the word kanna is used in reference to wisdom, as it is stated that wisdom says: “The Lord acquired me [kanani] at the beginning of His way” (Proverbs 8:22). The baraita continues: One might have thought that one must stand before an elder as soon as he sees him, even from a distance. Therefore the verse states: “You shall stand and you shall revere” (Leviticus 19:32), which teaches: I said that one is obligated to stand only in a place where there is reverence. If he stands while the elder is still far away, it is not clear that he is doing so in his honor. The baraita continues: One might have thought that he should revere him through money, i.e., that one is required to give an elder money in his honor. Therefore, the verse states: “You shall stand and you shall revere.” Just as standing includes no monetary loss, so too, reverence is referring to an action that includes no monetary loss. One might have thought that one should also stand before him in the lavatory or in the bathhouse. Therefore, the verse states: “You shall stand and you shall revere,” which indicates: I said the mitzva of standing only in a place where there is reverence. It is inappropriate to show respect for someone in places of this kind. The baraita continues: One might have thought that one may close his eyes like one who does not see the elder. Therefore, the verse states: “Before the hoary head you shall stand and you shall revere the face of an elder, and you shall fear your God” (Leviticus 19:32). With regard to any matter given over to the heart, it is stated: “And you shall fear your God.” This phrase is referring to a situation where it is impossible to prove whether one purposefully made it appear as if he were not aware that he was obligated to perform a mitzva, as only that individual and God know the truth. The baraita continues: Rabbi Shimon ben Elazar says: From where is it derived that an elder should not trouble others to honor him? The verse states: “And you shall revere the face of an elder, and you shall fear your God.” The phrase “an elder, and you shall fear,” read by itself, without the rest of the verse, indicates that an elder is also commanded to fear God, and not purposefully act in a manner to cause others to have to honor him. In conclusion, the baraita cites another opinion. Isi ben Yehuda says that the verse: “Before the hoary head you shall stand,” indicates that even any person of hoary head is included in this mitzva, not only a Sage. The Gemara analyzes this baraita. Apparently the opinion of Rabbi Yosei HaGelili is the same as that of the first tanna, as they both say that an elder is a Torah scholar. What does Rabbi Yosei HaGelili add? The Gemara answers: There is a difference between them with regard to one who is young and wise. The first tanna maintains: One who is young and wise is not considered an elder, as the mitzva applies only to one who is both elderly and wise. Rabbi Yosei HaGelili maintains: It is even a mitzva to honor one who is young and wise. According to Rabbi Yosei HaGelili, the mitzva is not referring to old age at all, but only to wisdom. The Gemara asks: What is the reasoning of Rabbi Yosei HaGelili? He could have said to you that if it enters your mind to explain as the first tanna says, that for the obligation to honor another to be in effect that person must be both elderly and wise, if so, let the Merciful One write: Before the hoary head of an elder you shall stand and you shall revere. What is the difference between the two terms “hoary head” and “elder,” that the Merciful One separates them? This serves to say that this term is not the same as that one, and that term is not the same as this one, i.e., an elder is not required to have a hoary head. Learn from the verse that even one who is young and wise is called an elder. And the first tanna would say that the verse is written this way because the Torah wants to juxtapose “elder” with “and you shall fear,” in accordance with Rabbi Shimon ben Elazar’s statement above that an elder should not trouble others to honor him. The Gemara asks: And what is the reasoning of the first tanna? Why does he maintain that one is obligated to stand only before an elder, wise man? The Gemara answers: The first tanna maintains that if it enters your mind to explain as Rabbi Yosei HaGelili says, let the Merciful One write:

▶ 🇫🇷 Résumé en français Par contraste, ici, est-ce sa Torah, que le maître puisse renoncer à son honneur ? Rava dit alors : Oui, s’il étudie, c’…

Par contraste, ici, est-ce sa Torah, que le maître puisse renoncer à son honneur ? Rava dit alors : Oui, s’il étudie, c’est sa Torah, comme il est écrit : « Car il trouve son plaisir dans la Torah de l’Éternel, et dans sa Torah il médite jour et nuit » (Psaumes 1:2). Cela indique qu’au début c’est « la Torah de l’Éternel », mais après qu’il l’étudie, elle devient « sa Torah ». La Guemara demande : Est-ce vraiment le cas ? Mais Rava servait des boissons aux invités au banquet de mariage de son fils, et il versa une coupe pour Rav Pappa et Rav Houna, fils de Rav Yehoshua, et ils se levèrent devant lui lorsqu’il s’approcha d’eux. Quand il versa une coupe pour Rav Mari et pour Rav Pineḥas, fils de Rav Ḥisda, ils ne se levèrent pas devant lui. Rava se fâcha et dit : Ces Sages, c’est-à-dire Rav Mari et Rav Pineḥas, sont-ils Sages, et ces Sages, qui se sont levés pour m’honorer, ne sont-ils pas Sages ? Pensez-vous être si grands que vous n’êtes pas tenus d’honorer un Sage ? Et de plus, il arriva que Rav Pappa servait des boissons aux invités au banquet de mariage [hillula] d’Abba Mar, son fils, et il versa une coupe pour Rav Yitzḥak, fils de Rav Yehuda, et il ne se leva pas devant lui, et Rav Pappa se fâcha. Ces anecdotes indiquent que même lorsqu’un rabbin renonce à l’honneur qui lui est dû en servant des boissons à ses invités, son honneur n’est pas abandonné. La Guemara répond : Un rabbin peut renoncer à la mesure complète de l’honneur qui lui est dû, mais même ainsi, les autres sont tenus d’accomplir un certain acte de révérence, comme se préparer à se lever devant lui. Rav Ashi dit : Même selon celui qui dit que si un rabbin renonce à l’honneur qui lui est dû, son honneur est abandonné, si un Nasi renonce à l’honneur qui lui est dû, son honneur n’est pas abandonné. La Guemara soulève une objection : Il y eut un incident impliquant Rabbi Eliezer et Rabbi Yehoshua et Rabbi Tzadok, qui étaient allongés au mariage du fils de Rabban Gamliel. Et Rabban Gamliel, qui était Nasi du Sanhédrin à cette époque, se tenait au-dessus d’eux et leur servait des boissons. Il donna la coupe à Rabbi Eliezer et il ne l’accepta pas ; il la donna à Rabbi Yehoshua et il l’accepta. Rabbi Eliezer lui dit : Qu’est-ce que cela, Yehoshua ? Nous sommes assis et l’estimé Rabban Gamliel se tient au-dessus de nous et nous sert des boissons ? Rabbi Yehoshua lui dit : Nous avons trouvé quelqu’un plus grand que lui qui a servi ses invités, car notre ancêtre Abraham était plus grand que lui et il a servi ses invités. Abraham était le plus grand homme de sa génération et il est écrit à son sujet : « Et il se tint au-dessus d’eux sous l’arbre, et ils mangèrent » (Genèse 18:8). Et de peur que tu dises : Ses invités lui apparurent comme des anges ministres, et c’est pourquoi il les honora, en fait ils ne lui apparurent que comme des Arabes. Et si c’est le cas, l’estimé Rabban Gamliel ne devrait-il pas se tenir au-dessus de nous et nous servir des boissons ? Rabbi Tzadok leur dit : Jusqu’à quand négligerez-vous l’honneur dû au Omniprésent, et vous occuperez-vous de l’honneur des gens ? Vous pourriez citer une preuve de Dieu Lui-même. Après tout, le Saint, béni soit-Il, fait souffler les vents, et élève les nuages, et amène la pluie, et fait germer la terre, et dresse une table devant chaque créature. Et l’estimé Rabban Gamliel ne devrait-il pas se tenir au-dessus de nous et nous servir des boissons ? Cette discussion indique que même un Nasi peut renoncer à l’honneur qui lui est dû. Plutôt, si cela a été dit, cela a été dit comme suit : Rav Ashi dit : Même selon celui qui dit que si un Nasi renonce à l’honneur qui lui est dû, son honneur est abandonné, si un roi renonce à l’honneur qui lui est dû, son honneur n’est pas abandonné. Comme il est dit : « Tu établiras sur toi un roi » (Deutéronome 17:15), ce qui indique que sa crainte doit être sur vous. Le peuple est commandé de craindre un roi, et il n’est donc pas permis à celui-ci de renoncer à l’honneur qui lui est dû. § Les Sages ont enseigné au sujet du verset : « Devant les cheveux blancs tu te lèveras et tu révéreras la face du vieillard, et tu craindras ton Dieu » (Lévitique 19:32) : On aurait pu penser qu’il est obligatoire de se lever devant un simple [ashmai] vieillard. C’est pourquoi, le verset dit : « vieillard », et un « vieillard » ne signifie rien d’autre que un homme sage, comme il est dit : « Assemble-moi soixante-dix hommes des Anciens d’Israël, que tu sais être les Anciens du peuple » (Nombres 11:16). Rabbi Yosei HaGelili dit : Un « vieillard [zaken] » ne signifie rien d’autre que celui qui a acquis la sagesse. Il interprète le mot zaken comme une contraction de l’expression zeh kanna, signifiant : Celui-ci a acquis. Ailleurs, le mot kanna est utilisé en référence à la sagesse, comme il est dit que la sagesse déclare : « L’Éternel m’a acquise [kanani] au commencement de Sa voie » (Proverbes 8:22). La baraita continue : On aurait pu penser que l’on doit se lever devant un ancien dès qu’on le voit, même de loin. C’est pourquoi le verset dit : « Tu te lèveras et tu révéreras » (Lévitique 19:32), ce qui enseigne : J’ai dit que l’on est obligé de se lever seulement dans un lieu où il y a révérence. S’il se lève alors que l’ancien est encore loin, il n’est pas clair qu’il le fasse en son honneur. La baraita continue : On aurait pu penser que il devrait le révérer par de l’argent, c’est-à-dire que l’on est tenu de donner de l’argent à un ancien en son honneur. C’est pourquoi, le verset dit : « Tu te lèveras et tu révéreras. » De même que se lever n’implique aucune perte d’argent, de même, la révérence fait référence à une action qui n’implique aucune perte d’argent. On aurait pu penser que l’on devrait aussi se lever devant lui dans les latrines ou dans le b [...]

📜 Kiddushin — 32b

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